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Alternative Love Film Festival | Interview with Chris Berry | Seoul Queer Film and Video Festival by Chris Berry

Alternative Love Film Festival
(Film festival and Seminars, 9-11 October th 1998)

Alternative Love Film Festival is part of a PhD study plan, which organised and planned by Sopawan Boonnimitra with the collaboration with Department of Motion Pictures and Still Photography (Salaithip Jarupoom, lecturer) before abruptly changing by the disapproving of the head of department to the independent group, Film-Lover, because of the controversial issues and the so-called 'immoral' theme that spread across the medias. It aims to provide an increasingly important issue concerning homosexuality but rarely allow to be discussed in the public with the venue/a space to be discussed and understood through filmic representation as well as posing as a kind of experimental project on public space in Bangkok of how the kind of 'other' space allow to be operated in the society. Most of the films are from Asian countries such as Taiwan, Japan, Hong Kong, and Thailand, which have provided more than a backdrop to understand them outside Western epistemologies. There are also three seminars relating to homosexual themes focusing on its representation and the medias.

Afterthoughts on the festival

Without any written laws the tolerance of people in the society can be withdraw at any time as demonstrated again in a three-day event - films screening and seminars relating to homosexuals and their representation in Thai society - in October 1988. While Rajabhat ban on homosexual teachers has challenged the outdated medicalised and pathologising model of homosexuality that dominated Thai society since the late 1960s and attempted to claim the same space as heterosexual, Alternative Love Film Festival has made a step further by attempting to fill the gap between reality in everyday life and mode of representation. While it is acceptable to have an established site for the ever-growing gay venues in Patpong and nearby areas it is still unlikely for Thai people, particularly the authorities, to accept gay and lesbian representation away from stereotypical or challenging heterosexual norms. Alternative Love Film Festival, in a way, has stood out as the model that we can see the power of hegemony heterosexual ideology at work in an attempt of authorities to eliminate what does not conform to the norms. It is also a kind of 'fantasy' space that once the 'deviant' Other had claimed the public space and become a hegemony ideology.

It would be a rather different result if the festival had been organised by particular gay or lesbian organisation and attempted to open to the public. The reasons that it had been organised by an academics in University and included academics forum within the festival have been justified by more tolerant attitudes of the general Bangkok population. Nevertheless gay and lesbian has not much been welcome by dominant Thai academia, which has been long authorised what knowledge is appropriate and inappropriate for Thai society. After having a press released in September the festival has been publicised under Department of Motion Pictures and Still Photography, Chulalongkorn University, the head of department refused that the department has nothing to do with its homosexual theme, which will cause the university a bad reputation. The head of department, Patamavadee Charuworn, who also a Censorship Board member, had told the police and the Censorship Board that there will be 'immoral' films shown at the festival. 'Immoral' is one of the lists to be screened out by film Censorship Board that including, for instance, love scenes and obviously in this case homosexuality. Homosexuality has now stepped away from being an 'illness' and took an 'immoral' trial that appeared to destroy a good Thai tradition moral.

Under the current law, it is illegal to show any 'immoral' films such as pornography in the public. Therefore the festival with its link with 'immoral' theme, according to Patamavadee, was illegal to show any films in the public without having films screen out by the Censorship Board first. To avoid being screened out half of the film or ban the whole film, the festival, at the end, was held under the name Film Lover Group instead to make the festival a private event that allowed only member to view the films. At last the festival was forced out academic circle and remained contain in the private space that only member of homosexuals could be enjoy within. Although the 'private' has no longer been the space that filled of sorrow or self-hatred it is now on that can open and extend to the 'public' space.

With a big sign indicates "Membership Only" and private space of temporary convert theatre Saeng Aroon Arts Center, the large crowd of audience was drawn to the festival. Despite attempts by authorities to have it stopped, the opening night was a full house. Some later minutes of the opening film, local police with the court order, which stated that a complaint had been received that a group of people are showing 'immoral films', has interrupted the screening. The police left the theatre satisfying that nothing immoral or illegal was taking place after make statement in front of the audience. However the undercover policemen, including a contingent from the Film Censorship Office, continued to remain at the venue. The police force was used as an ultimate threatening to confront those who outlaw now rather become a symbolic of authority that failed to maintain the established norms. The remaining policemen were no longer concerned with the 'immoral' theme rather than to save 'face' of heterosexual ideology and maintain its territory of public sphere that was troubling by homosexuality.

Situated on Silom Road, the temporary theatre, the festival turned to be a contested site and some how managed to function as a fantasy site in the society. By knowing that coming to the festival could somehow be against the law and the authorities and exposing oneself to the public and ultimately to the media despite the sign indicating private space, both gay and lesbian, film critics, film lover, and some curiosity heterosexual were drawn into the place. It is still unappropriated to call it 'community' as the festival was structured out of the temporary of both time and space. However the short-lived of the festival has provided a temporary space for a safe 'coming out' and come to terms with their homosexuality in a semi-public space.

Notes: extract from the second chapter in the main analysis

Seminars at Saeng Aroon Arts Center 9-11 th October 1998

Seminar 1: The Representation of homosexuals in Thai Films

The speakers include three of Thai film leading critics: Khun Sittirak Turapidham, Khun Sutthakorn Santitawat, Khun Manotham Thiemtheaprath and chaired by Salaithip Jarupoom, film lecturer at Chulalongkorn University. This section of the seminar is partly translated into English.

Salaithip : How does one portray homosexual characters in Thai films?

Khun Sittirak : One way is to impersonate the characteristics of the opposite sex in Thai films. Such as Khun Issarawadee Issarakul, she is known to many people from the "Wai Aon La Won" film. In this role, she feels she is a woman and this can be confirmed by going back and watching it again. Her character in "Wai Aon La Won" makes us feel the same way in its portrayal, although in the "Kru Somsri" film, she portrays the male character more than the woman. But from the year 2528 until 2541, producers of Thai Films still did not possess good enough tactics or the know-how to show a male homosexual character with sufficient in-depth sexual characteristics of a woman. This was due to the negative attitude towards homosexuals during that era as they were condemned and were not fully understood. Everything in this country takes time, especially the film industry. Just like today, there are a lot of empty seats and I believe it will take time to fill up those seats like in a movie. It will take time to change places and change people. In the next 10 years, if there are people on this stage and if I still have to talk about homosexuals in Thai films it will have meant nothing and I believe that I will have failed with the Thai film producer and Thai film audience and I believe you will look for a special way yourselves.

Salaithip : Thank you. Just like Khun Sutakorn said sometimes before we can see the result some people could have died already. I expect audiences although the people who would like to know the dimensions of the film will joint and see you again in many places. And when we have the activities we will contact you. On behalf of gays and lesbian audiences, we would like to hear your voice or your attitude about this seminar. Why are you coming to see this movie? Who is it? Please use the microphone.

Questioner2 : It's not a question. It's a comment. And also contest look interesting.

Implicating in Thai film producer about subtext that does not possess good enough tactics or they never thought gays or lesbian have right to think that is not normal.

Khun Sutakorn : Let me go first. My subtext means most of the Thai film producers only make superficial films, some already have the details but it's still not enough. We just don't present the sexual attitude, but we are direct in presenting other attitudes. Or, we put a low value on the audience. Such as "The Box of Tan Muy", it's very direct but the story makes us feel that they didn't think profoundly before they made it. So gay and lesbian stories are the same, I don't think they have bad attitudes. Or if they do, it will not be that bad until you try to resist it. We haven't got the schools to teach students how to think before making films. You have to feel yourself, develop yourself or go back to the same words. It all takes time.

Khun Sittirak : I'm talking about Thai film producers. The way they think doesn't mean they cannot think, and it doesn't mean they don't pay attention to the homosexual characters. Just that they feel it is not important enough to present in the larger community. How many people would like to see a homosexual film? But it doesn't mean they're not important. In a part of Khun Sutakorn's said subtext about Thai film producers, he means that you can find the way to make the audience think why? What? How? Don't tell the whole story in the first sentence like Mayaritsaya and Changmun Chan Mai Care.

How can a Thai film producer make the audience think and be interested in a film? Or how can they present the homosexual character as having more depth, I think they try to look and learn everything, but it is not enough.

Khun Sutakorn : Referring to Khun Sittirak. He has said something about the character, Roommate, who hates the men for selling themselves. I don't know if Thai Society agrees with them or not.[The men who sell themselves]??? If not, this could be the reason why they cannot openly express themselves in society. I'm not sure if that happened in Thailand, but in the history of communism,they did and that's why the symbolism appeared, such as in the film "A MAN IN HER LIFE" from the Philippines, it still portrays the same story but in a different time. They had to say that homosexuality is just part of the film because of the governmental power. That shows you why they could not present themselves much in controlled social systems.

Question : Which group of producers present the homosexual films? Do they have to be homosexual too?

Master Salaitip : Thanks for you question. Let's start from Khun Manotham.

Master Manotham : Thank you. It's a very interesting question. Actually there are s2 groups. The first one is gay producers and the second ones are straight. You have seen the first one a lot and will more and more. Such as Medec Jaramain, who passed away with HIV and left a perfect gay film for us. For the lesbians that try to protest and manifest themselves is right for society. The audiences are members. These people are similar to portrait artists who can draw anything that customers want. They have a root of creative power and are aggressive. Normal people might not understand them. That's why Jaramain made a sound film after he was blind and just before he died. It doesn't have a wall of pictures, everyone listens just the same. And finally this film is the easiest film to understand.

The second group of producers is straight or Hetero. Such as Jonathan Demy who made "Philadelphia", but the obvious one is Wong Ka Wai who made "HAPPY TOGETHER". He made a film as though he was a gay, but he is not because I met him one time with his wife. The latest news that I heard about him is that he's coming to film in Thailand. So it could be the part two of "Happy Together". There are many nice scout locations around Charoen Krung Road. Mostly Wong Ka Wai's films' are sentimental films, so it's not wrong to say "he's come in the right way and can be successful". This group makes films for main stream audiences. This means that they have been accepted and have been developing over time. They don't need to hide when they want to show.

Salaithip : We have very limited time so you can go and get something to eat. I will see you again at 7 PM. on channel 5. And don't miss the program Tomorrow at 10 AM. Thank you everyone for coming and participating especially Khun Sutakorn, Khun Sittirak and Khun Manotham.

Seminar 2: The Representation of homosexuals in Thai society through Media

Dr. Krittiya Achavanichkul of Mahidol University's Institute for Population and Social Research : Today is the second day of the seminar. It's a good opportunity for us to take 15 minutes get to know each other and make some friends before the questions. And now I would like to introduce you to Khun Kamchon Luiyaphong. He works at The Information Department, doing something that I can't remember. He graduated with a Bachelor of Arts Degree from Thammasart University, Japanese language major. And now he's studying 2 Master Degrees at Thammasart University and Chula. Therefore his topic is "The Relation between culture and communication". The person on the left hand side is Dr.Chaiyan Chaiyaporn, a good looking man from the Faculty of Political Science, Chulalongkorn University and his topic is "Homosexual love in knowledge". Next to him is Mr.Megan Sinnott, the master in Anthropology from Mahidol University and currently researching for a doctorate degree from Wisconsin. His topic is "Lesbian Identity and Community in Thailand" The person on the left is Dr. Nerida Cook from Tasmania researching on the Subculture of gays and lesbians in Thailand which is appending with Mahidol University. And now, let's please start with Dr. Chaiyan.

Dr. Chaiyan Chaiyaporn of Faculty of Political Science, Chulalongkorn University : Good morning. I have limited time, so I will talk about one interesting subject only. I would like to invite people who don't understand homosexuality to listen. Master Krittiya had told me that someone said "homosexuality is abnormal from nature". I think we should not say what is right and what is wrong. As academics, we try to understand the nature of love, either heterosexual or homosexual. Let's say they are they, we are we. We might not understand them and they might not understand us. Some masters say that "Homosexuality only appears in a modern society". But actually, homosexuality appeared a long time ago, since ancient Greece. You see it in the ancient artifacts such as bowlsl or on the rocks, which bear pictures of sexual intercourse between man and man. It's an accepted basis of love but it's still not the main basis of the society. The most famous evidence is in Homer's literary work "The Elite". This is the story of the relationship between Acreris and Petoplus. They are warriors and Petoplus was killed in the war. Acreris wanted to get even with the killer. Sounds like he wanted to do it for his friend. But in the actual literature, Homer has written about how beautiful their bodies and faces are. If they're just friends, the writer doesn't need to say that. But in later times not many people could accept the story about sexuality between men and men, so they tried to change the meaning of it. If you ask Ancient Greek scholars about homosexual love, they will say that it is "unnatural". But if so why was it allowed to happen, and why it was depicted so frequently in literature and the arts? The problem was not the homosexuality but the quantity of sex which is too much. Thus, the homosexuals are not social problems. Anybody who would like to know or understand about love in Ancient Greece has to read "The Anceince". The other interesting book is the conversation of Plato called "Symposium". It's about Aristophanes' love and explains why men love women, why women love men, why men love men, and why women love women. He said, originally, humans had 3 sexes, male, female, and lady boys who were man and woman in the same body. We had a circular body, 4 arms, 4 legs and 2 faces that were on opposite sides. Humans tried to fight with the God - Zeus, so he sent Apoloma to separate human bodies in half. That means one person was separated into two people. And, the person who had been separated from you tries to seek you all the time. So, the real love in his meaning is homosexual love. Some scientist from California or somewhere said that our brain has sex. There are male, female, and gays. Because at the moment, we have no scientific evidence to explain it, we should study homosexuality more. And just like I said," The problem is not homosexuality but the quantity of sex which is too much".

Krittiya : Thank you. Dr. Chaiyan that makes us think 2 things. The first thing is about thinking about right and wrong. And the second thing is too much of anything not good. Does anyone have a question?

participant : Dr. Chaiyan talked about Ancient Greece, so I would like to know if scholars, media, or other organizations can affect attitudes toward homosexuality or not. Because now, I feel Thailand bad media and this can have a negative effect to the people in the country.

Chaiyan : Yes, It has an effect. They've got the media telling them that the basis of sex is heterosexual. And the media is a drama.

Krittiya : Anymore questions? Dr. Chaiyan has to go now, so thank you very much for today. Next person is Mr. Megan. He speaks English and will spend around 15 minutes of time. Mr.Megan, please.

Dr.Megan Sinnott : Okay. Today, we'll talk about how the media can perpetuate certain negative stereotypes about homosexuality. I'm focusing specifically on the Thai clip media. I focus on other clips looking at other courses in magazines and daily victims in newspapers and in view journals in the Thai print media. I am arguing that there is a force in the Thai print media which only perpetuates and creates negative stereotypes about homosexuality. This is considered the right way in which to talk homosexuality in the media and I will focus on this one point from the start. I think there are 3 basic characteristics in which the media discusses homosexuality. One, they reproduce negative understandings of homosexuality. Two, they create negative stereotypes about homosexuality. And three, until recently there were few opportunities for gays and lesbians to represent themselves in the media. An issue to discuss, first of all, is the belief that these attitudes toward homosexuality hurts. This belief has become a bit more accepted in recent years It is more accepted now. These beliefs are often repeated in the media and every section of the media would say it is more open to accepting homosexuality. Although I think now I will briefly produce some evidence which challenges that belief i.e. the attitude at Siamrath newspaper. For 26 years that it has been in the business, there is still no more acceptance of homosexuality now than in the past. Most daily papers are anti-gay, and that is their stance so now I want to look at how this puts us is in a wrap. The media needs to make money so what does that gets produced. The media is a business and its selling point is headlines, and that's the bottom line. Every reporter's attitude toward all newspapers is to submit a selling point. They need to find new issues to go and sell. The first selling point that I think the media uses is social problem. The media attempts to convince readers that homosexuality is a social problem. Something are new something are threatening and therefore worth reading about. The media sells stories that are shocking such as murder. Homosexuality has been an easy target for the media because unlike other groups, negative stereotypes of common sexuality make it unlikely that anyone will stand up and protest. I think the case in question was a shock to the media officials because before that case they could basically say anything about gays and lesbians in the paper. . Gays have been easily used as scapegoats in the media. That's it! So the main elements of homosexuality are a social problem. Homosexuality is used as a symbol of social change. A marker with which one judges what is wrong by conversation by lifestyle by middle class association with homosexuality. But distinctions are made between the high spending Majority of living homosexuals. A 194 articles:

The magazine, "Pua Chee Wit", has a 15 page article on the straightening out of a new problem. They open up with the description of the gay dissolution vote. To understand the changing body of thinking,one needs to look at the music, which seems to be the mystery influence moving behaviour into strange and abnormal sexuality. Nobody can say that the story is not an interesting one. Okay, this article made a point in the press and gave a balanced solution by presenting opposing view-points. The first is clod. Some people express sympathy for people who are sexually aberrant saying the matter is bad fate. Just like people who are victims of incurable diseases so homosexuality results from a freak of nature rather than a social process. That is the part of the web. The negative opinion is that other people see things in the opposite way. The fact is that many nations use the socially-set boundary that same sex association is unlike hetero- sexual behavior, disgusting in reality, a degredation. OKAY. The meaning of place upon rapid social changes in Thai society can not avoid focussing on this group. A group that for the most part until recently, was not there to defend themselves. The stereotypes from 1992 - 1994, are repeated on the stage. So the press believe that weird stories of weird sex, weird people, and weird social phenomenons can be linked to social problems and are thus a selling point for their enterprises.

This is from Koo Sang Koo Som 1996. This is the story about Tomboy and Dee lesbians that supposedly had sex with a live eel leading to death. In this story you can pick up many Koo Sang Koo Som. You can read stories like this almost every week. Relating to the selling of the weird is the selling of weird crimes. Weird crime stories are quite a prevelent part within the Thai press, because to sell a crime story now needs a twist, a special selling point. Crimes involving homosexuality provide the twists that make for juicy headlines. Something dirty. Matichon is not far behind Thairath. In some articles, the weird crime stories focuses on victims that are gay.

*Passion within the gay, Song doctor killed the very bad murder which is that in gay love try more than to be*. This on articl says that 9 out of 10 gay murder cases are based primarily on jealousy. Steady investigation shows that gay crimes are violent and are unselfconscious. These gay crimes are repeated over and over and over again in the media. Especially, the sensational murder in Chiangmai in December of '96. A student studying to be a teacher at Chiangmai University was arrested for the murder of a woman who was anti-lesbian. The murderer was a male homosexual. This is from Matichon, a very well respected newspaper.

These articles are the opinions of the journalist themselves. This case reflects another dimension of society. There was a victim. Although she was a woman, she was a physiological deviant being a Tomboy while the murderer openly * switches his fan with the temple . * I have no idea what this means .

Another issue is the path that leads to bans on gay students. That same month, a pathologist banned homosexual students from studying to become teachers.

The ban was covered extensively in the Thai press. But unlike past instances, there was a large outcry against the discriminative policy. However, the press itself tried to be very conservative by letting outsiders basically challenge stereotypes while the press themselves in reality up-held the stereotypes of gay violence.

The writer of this daily news story said they should have one code to focus on which is to assign teachers that are good role models for the children. Therefore, the behavior of teachers is very important, and the issue of human rights and choosing teachers must be set. Ok. I think the last case I'm going to talk about is the Tui case. A stereotype is created by the media. The processes covered homosexuality and its association with crime, not only enforcing the stereotypes but actually creating them. The Tui case is an illustration of the creation of stereotypes. The idea is that homosexuality is linked to violence and hot tempers by nature. It's probably created by the media and reinforced by decades of media coverage. The coverage for decades, of the politician charged, failed in 1998. For those who worked with the case, some asked for the arrest of the prostitute charged, as she claimed to have had sex with a high government official named Tui. If such was so, which Tui was it? And so, all government officials named "Tui" tried to defend themselves.

************The almost the strange shocking what is a "Black bean"? "Black bean" is a shitpack. It is the head language saying over and over and reference of Tui. Shitpack orTui is a parliament officer. Member of parliaments upset with drag to the shit. There are suppose to the view of cooperate progress shitpack in cross dressing proverbs review. This is the....

Some more splashing headlines. OKAY. After this case, any crime associated with the gay map with a person named of Tui now has now can become a proverb.

[A Tui monk is arrested force sign children in article code. A latest monk of Tui behavior for sufficient]. In 1998 a high profile researcher was murdered. The man arrested for the murder was an army captain. Both the accused and the victim were reported to be gay.

This case was headline news in every Thai language publication for a number of weeks as the case moved from being a gay crime to a of case of corruption. The army observer had passed through Australia trafficking drugs for the Thai army. The crackdown on government corruption, and the weird crime angle climaxed to the publics' satisfaction. It was called the Tui in every headline rather than news about the murder, so it was assumed that there was corruption in the charges. As in earlier coverage of gay crimes, the terms used for criminal acts by homosexuals and bisexuals is discriminatory.

So we have all the newspapers reporting in the same way and it finally becomes international. Being named the "Tui", the supposedly homosexual person who had committed the crime became an enormou burden.. The crime did not come under the normal murder rate because it is was a gay murder, and the gay murder rate is bigger for just because it it gay. [ Apparently merges and the media just close the homosexuality]. The press consistently perpetuates ideas that homosexuality is dangerous for Thai tradition as it is tragic and associated with violent crime. These ideas inform main thinking. And what we report in the media as facts, I argue are rather an issue of the homosexuality. Homosexuality is used by the media, government officials and others to further particular agendas. Government officials under pressure from the public's demand for educational reform, respond to the stereotypical images of homosexuals rather than real educational reform as this pressure is an enticement to official corruption. It's manipulated by nursing stories st of homosexuals such as that about the gay drug dealer and army officer. Homosexuality has been an easy target for those needing to appease the clack of public criticism or despite Royal headlines. As for the media, nothing sells like selecting stories in balance and hopefully balance is not likely to lead to protest as landed commands. Homosexuality provides a handy tool for those selling papers and those seeking public approval. We're consumers and the mass media needs to provide what the consumers want and the source of these wants have been further perpetuated by these negative stereotypes and unfound stereotyping against gays. Thanks.

Krittiya : Mr.Megan's presentation reminds me of the research explanation. Thailand's media attitude thinks these social problems cause the criminal. Regarding what Mr.Megan said,about the ladyboy student who murdered her friend in Chiang Mai makes me think about the comparison with the Jenjira case, the medical student who was murdered by her boyfriend. That shows you how the media think. They have a bad attitude towards homosexuals. The next one is Master Kamchon. Please

Kamchon Luiyaphong , freelance researcher : Good morning, I have to tell you first I'm not a movie or gender specialist. But I'm interested in media and culture which are can not be separated from each other. The media helps culture relay to society, but in another way culture is taken from the society and related to society as well.. Example. Beer advertising. They do not tell you directly that they want you to drink but they take the nature and the culture of the man to present it. Such as a man who drinks beer after work. People call this "Culture Study" and say the problem is if we stay in a different society we might not understand each other. It's like we all have 1 book, which is called "The Culture Book". This book is written by society, believing in region or teachings from our mother and father. The second problem is the media who do not relay the whole story of culture. Laura Malvi the writer of Visual Pressure and Narrative Cinema said "sometimes women in film do not look like women in the real world" she has been looks like whom? This differs from the men in film who always look like heroes and action stars. The producer has to think are women actually like that or not. That's why at the moment women in films have changed to be stronger such as in "Silence Of The Lambs". and "Thelma and Louis" since the feminists got their rights. Now it's time for homosexuals.In film they always look different from the real world. The media always presents them in a bad way,because if we look back to the culture book it does not make homosexuals look attractive. They are given unfavourable characters, such as comedians or murderers. But the homosexual is starting to come out to the real word, as can be seen in My Best Friends' Wedding and Silence of the Lambs. And the media makes them look even better in the film, Wedding Banquet,and Farewell to my Concubine in Asia, even Philadelphia, in which Tom Hanks was the star and got an Academy Award. And now we're going to talk about the film HAPPY TOGETHER by Wong Ka Wai that was presented in 1997. If I'm not wrong the story is about 2 gays presented by Lesli Jang and Lieng Chow Wei. They are lovers and are going to see the Iguaçu water fountain in Argentina. In the opening scenes they are kissing and making love. Some audiences walked out from the theater because they could not take it, but some sat still and tried to understand. The first group closed the culture book, walked away and said it's not my culture. The other opened the book and started to write new information and tried to understand them. Wong Ka Wai presented Lesli Jang to be envious and flirtious, different, from Liang Chow Wei who believes in destiny and therefore has to be there. Wong Ka Wai would like to tell us that homosexuals in film today are different from before. They have ambitions. They have their own way and finally they can be successful. I would like to say homosexuals are trying to get their own space in films, and we all hope that the main media will have some space for them and everyone else too.

Krittiya : Thank you Khun Kamchon. In reference to Referring culture and symbolism in this film, I have something to tell you. On 8th Mar, the first day that I watched television in Australia. There were lesbian movies on the government channel. In one a female reporter fell in love with a woman. The other one was November Moon and so it continued for about 4 or 5 films. You can see if the media presents the many sides of homosexuals, we will know and understand them more. Please, Lady in the front first and the back one later.

participant : It's a general question but the person who can answer should be a person who does a research about gays and lesbians in Thailand. My question is, is there any information in research which says "What disturbs peoples' feelings most from the media?" Is it wording, content and message or something to do with the media knowledge? Or is word culture?

Krittiya : Megan, please answer this question.

Megan : Ok. I think it's a good question and it is not easy to answer. You read someone's articles and something in the content may be supportive . I interviewed the reporter who gets these articles and the reporter was believed to be supportive. And these are normal people who have to do whatever is needed to sell papers, an attitude decision. They have to make a splash with the headlines and they are usually negative. Eg. poor people are... something like that and.... descriptions like: woman are having kisses in the dark corner of bar s. It's negative. But it's getting much better. So I have to show you, I think it is a process. And I think there are individuals within the media who are really trying to gain a better understanding. There are traps within the culture of the newspapers, go it only so far you can go. Is that the answer anyway?

participant : How can we communicate with the media to get them to understand, accept and correctly present the situation?

Krittiya : I would like to add more questions. Who's going to tell the media? Mr.Kamchon, please.

Kamchon : The first thing we have to understand is the structure of the media. Firstly, that the media has a frame-work of culture, social values, marketing and the most importantly how to make people interested in it. I'm not sure that I can give you the answer. And how are we going to deal with the media? For this question, I don't know but I think the media might know themselves. They only want to sell what they want you to know. They use thesis language to present the news, which means they have language knowledge but they don't use it. It might because they are scared or worried about the sales figures. The frequency of our activities will let them to know that we don't want it and we won't accept it. The easy selling principle is selling something that people are interested in and keeps them happy.

Krittiya : Thank you Kamchon. Dr. Nerida Cook, Please.

Dr.Nerida Cook of University of Tasmania : Today I'm going to talk about the media. And will make a contrast by talking about the experiences and the view points of a tabloid. Tomboy and Dee as contrasted with the general population. Mostly it's people in newspapers of the last few days that I'm talking about. I would like to speak in Thai for a little bit. It's about the media especially newspaper media.. In Thai journals, mostly, homosexuals look bad and cause problems in society. They will not let us try to understand nor want us to know about their problems and their feelings. But today you will know it. They are middle class society such as business owners, teachers and lawyers. So I'm starting with the idea that is very difficult to understand any group of people if you don't understand the contexts which they try to deny. In other words, you can't start with them as they are themselves. The way they are different from the way others, see them. I would like to give a talk about just a couple of examples on how they see themselves. I'd like you to think about how different these examples are in relation to yourself. These differences are called abnormal by many people. OK. So I'll start with Dee first, a woman who has a Tomboy partner. When I talk to Dees on how they feel about having a Tomboy lover. There's a very common response which intends to point to the way that they see differences between Tomboys and men. In the sense of Tomboys, we have got a message that there is a sort of mixture that Dees say the men actually deny.

I ask Dees, Why do you like Tomboys? They say the Tomboy has got 2 characters which respond like a man and can understand very gently like a woman.

So, what I'm saying is, I feel that Tomboys understand them better, and can sympathise with them. They feel quite close to them. In the way that maybe they have failed to feel with men.

Comparing Tomboys and other men as boyfriends, a Tomboy is closer, more comfortable and happier to be together. Not because of the attitudes about the man but just because of their experience.

And the other thing which going to cause a little bit of trouble maybe is the fact that Tomboys, some women say, are likely to be more faithful, less likely to be a lady's man than the man. Ok, I'll say it in English first. It's easier. They say presently in society, it's easier for a man to have other wives, or other girlfriends.

Tomboys tend not to do this with their partners. They don't have the social pressure to visit prostitutes. Also another important idea that is quite interesting, is that it is hard for Tomboys to find women who can understand them and accept a Tomboy as a sexual partne, so it's hard for them to find new girls. So if they have a relationship now they're going be more careful with that relationship. Ok! This is the opinion of the people who are reflecting on their own Tomboy experiences and it draws to some extent on generations. It's about how they want to be themself.

So it's no justification to say that the woman who wants to know herself and knows what she wants is unnatural. And the other reason for being with a Tomboy is less risk of catching AIDS or any of the other risks that can happen with men.

I've know 2 things from talking with them. The first thing is that being a Tomboy is natural since they were born that way and cannot change. The second thing is Dees are the way that they are because they choose to be. So in the general, society tells you many different things.

So, as I understand it being a Tomboy consists of realization. What they need is more like what men want, so that's why Tomboys physiologically, and emotionally, feel like man and know how to act effectively for women. The problem for them is not too much understanding of themselves but it's having other people accept them in this sense.

A few days ago, I spoke with 2 Tomboy friends. One asked "What is in your regular life that you don't see in the newspaper? It's not a good question but the other one said[ "working life"]??. It's non- acceptance, no trust in their abilities which they have.

Even though, these kind of stereotypes represents them a having problems in their private life and in their personality, it actually goes over into their working life, into their ability to carry on from day to day. One of the difficult thing about being a Tomboy is they don't get the same oppotunities for work as the next person.. They have to constantly push themselves to be resistant, to be impressive, to try and overcome. It is especially the lack of trust that's an everyday experience that we meet at work.

In the business world it is difficult to be a Tomboy. They feel they are in the middle between man and woman. No one tries to understand them.

One of the things that I want to draw your attention to is that they are a kind of people who really can't cut it in Thai society. A person who really can't enter that society because what they are dealing with is their "Abnormality" The reality as far as I see tends to be very different. These are people who have been very reflective of themselves. They're very aware of choices that they're making, they're very aware of how people see them and they need to respond with patience, with a sense of humor about what is a real struggle, in dealing with suspicion and lack of sympathy.

And I think it's quite interesting to look at some of the ways in which they describe society from the comments of a Dee. She sees conventional marriages in some quite critical ways. Some of the pink when they see the ordinary marriage will be put off by it. We've been thinking hard about whether the conventional marriage and the choices that women are expected to make really suit them or not.

Equally, I think about the comments of a Tomboy. For Tomboys, it's not necessarily just Tomboys who feel that they're trying to have something that they think they have the ability to have, but don't necessarily have. The proverb that older people could quote is that: "because one is born to something does not necessarily entitle one to it ". So, they're struggling with things, and I think Thai societal life is quite interesting and we can see a connection between the problem that they have, and why that problem is so associated.

Krittiya : Thank you Master Nerida for letting us see the point of Tomboys and Dees in Thailand that you're researching. One thing that I notice is that there more gay research than lesbian. To go back to what Dr. Chaiyan said about Ancient Greece. There are more sexual stories about sex between men and men than women and women. It means the world belongs men. Oh! I'm not talking about the woman right. OK. We have 15-30 minutes for the questions; if you're not hungry we might be able to go until 12 o'clock. Anybody would like to ask a question? Don't worry. Master Megan and Master Nerida understand Thai and also we have a translator.

participant : How many homosexuals works in research or make a film about themselves?

Kamchon : I don't want to say I don't know, but what I know that it is very few. Just as I said in the beginning, it's a culture group and also because of the culture, the law and the morals in Thailand. People will look at anybody who's going to watch homosexual films or produces homosexual films as a homosexual. Although many people try to do a thesis about gays it's not successful.

participant : What can the Student Institute do to get people to understand correctly about homosexuals in Thailand?

Krittiya : The first question for Master Kamchon makes me think of The Last Song film. You can see only one side of homosexuals. They all have a very sad life story and end up with killing themselves in the film. The singer is Khun Tuk Siriporn Yuyod. Now we come back to the question. It's take time for the institute. Do not think universities is clever, especially Thai universities. They are so stupid. You have to give them time to learn. An example was a thesis at Thammasart University entitled Identities of Tomboys. Dee and Gay life in Pattaya. People who didn't want to do it, fine, but they tried to stop other people who wanted to do it too. I think it's something that we could not research in the past, was sex. We couldn't do it before. But after AIDS appeared, many people accepted and paid attention to the problem. The questions that you ask people about sex are very direct. In homosexual research, questions might be not about how they are having sex or something like that. Researchers have their own way of thinking about homosexuals, mostly in a bad way. So you have to give them time to understand. How do Thai Universities look at the problem of research about homosexuality? Mr. Megan, Please.

Megan : I think it probably depends a lot on individual personality. Different universities, have different opinions. Some people think it's embarrassing and some think it's interesting, depends on the person. Such as the policy of some universities , no promotion for the homosexual, no student wants to do a thesis on this topic because no teacher will help them. But another university might.

Nerida : I think researching in Thailand is something to do with the numbers. If it's small, nobody wants to pay attention. I think we should look at the point of what we will get from the social understanding.

Krittiya : Anybody would like to question or say anything more?

Participant : Regarding what Master Kamchon said about the culture group. It means even though the producer makes more homosexual films are they enough to gain acceptatance? I mean is the same target or not. If it's the same how can we get more acceptatance from the society at large?

Krittiya : Is this soft or strong question? I thought soft but.........OK. Please.

Kamchon : I would like to say no to this question but I will give you some example. About year ago, a French analyst was analyzing dark people films in an encyclopedia called "Set It Off", if I'm not wrong. It's so difficult to find white people watching dark people films, as though this world is just for white people. Even in America, the place which is very concerned about equality of people. So I think you can get the answer from this story.

Seminar 3: Identity of homosexuals in Thai Cultures

The seminar is chaired by Salaithip Jarupoom, Faculty of Communication Arts, Chulalongkorn University.

Salaithip : This panel discussion will focus on the issue of homosexuals in Asian culture. Our speakers today are both experts on and have a deep knowledge of the topic. Our first speaker is Doctor Sukamon Viphaviphalakul, psychatrist at Somdej Chaophaya Hospital. He is head of AIDS and Consulting Department. Our second speaker is Aajarn Thaneet Wongyannawa,lecturer at the Faculty of Political Science,Thammasart University. Firstly I would like to ask Dr Sukamon to tell us about Thai peoples' attitude towards homosexuals/homosexuality and the situation of homosexuals today from an academic point of view.

Doctor Sukamon : Actually all human beings [not only Thais] have views about sex in all its many aspects. These views may vary depending on factors such as place and culture. A very clear example is Western culture where hugging and kissing in public are common things to do, but in Asia these manners are inappropriate. Many years ago when I was still a medical student there was a couple both medical teachers [Westerns].When the husband went to see his wife off at a bus terminal in Khonkaen, they hugged each other tightly and people at the terminal stared at them.

Beside place and culture there is also the factor of time. For example in the 19 th Century, when the church had a great influence on the values and behaviour of Western people, some sexual behaviours were considered sin, notably masturbation, which was prohibited. If a person was caught in this practice punishment was severe.

Even after WW 2 some physicians were writing books publicising the belief that masturbation would cause many negative health results. A person practising this type of sexual behaviour could go mad, go blind, have headaches become weak and exhausted. These beliefs still exist today especially among those teenagers who start to have sexual desire.

Another factor that has influenced attitudes towards sex is religion. Even today some religions still consider masturbation, contraception or sexual intercourse in any position other than the "missionary position" as sin. So depending on the attitudes instilled by these external factors in various societies some people might be completely antagonistic towards those who deviate from the agreed permissible sexual behaviour, others may merely feel uncomfortable whilst others may find any kind of sexual behaviour perfectly acceptable . In Thai culture the different attitudes towards Gays might be seen as caused by confused/unclear understanding.

In psychological theory we tend to fear what we do not know, understand, are not sure of or feel is mysterious. In times past people feared communism even though they did not know what it was, because they had been taught to fear and hate it. In the same way older people today fear computers because they do not know how they work or how to use them. They are frightened of making mistakes or of damaging the machine.

So in a similar way confusion or uncertainty about homosexuality/homosexuals can lead to the belief that homosexuals are sex maniacs? or even child abusers and many people are also unable to differentiate between homosexuals and "katoey". Also transvestites as portrayed in the media tend to act very unnaturally. Consequently viewers seeing these images assume that all homosexuals are this way.

If you ask me whether I think homosexuality is unusual or not, I will have to say No. For me it is in the same category as right or left handed people. Whist most people in society are right handed those who are left handed are not considered abnormal or strange. So with homosexuals, whilst most people are heterosexual those who are homosexual are not unusual.

Salaithip: Why do some people accept homosexuality while others do not?

Doctor Sukamon : This is because each person has a different background. In the medical field there a lot of homosexuals and they are so good at studying, I am amazed at that fact and really admire them. In so many other occupations this group of people are very talented. But people see "katoey" gays on TV, note their unnatural behaviour assume that it is the norm for these people and consequently have a bad attitude towards them. I think it will take time to create wide acceptance.

By taking time I do not mean letting time pass by and waiting for people to accept homosexuals without doing anything about it. It is everyone's' task to guide people to positive images. So the media must send positive messages about homosexuals to all audiences who are interested, whether they are gays or not. As for the homosexual groups' part, they themselves must present positive images too, to create understanding and acceptance of their abilities; because gays who are participants in many fields of knowledge are talented and create work that can bring fame to the country.

Thanes : In my opinion the attitudes of Thai people towards sex and homosexuals comes from western values, the values of Christians in the 19 th century, where the individual was controlled by many social systems one of which was medicine.

Medicine was one of the mechanisms that controlled the sexual behaviour of westerners at the end of the 19 th century Western medicine was not pure science but itself was controlled by moral or so called moral science. As an example, a married couple went to see a doctor [who was later to become the President of the American Export Association] with a problem that for the seven years of their marriage the wife wanted to have sexual intercourse every day . The Dr. diagnosed the woman as a nymphomaniac and introduced many methods to decrease her sexual desires. Such methods included eating less meat abstaining from wine and rubbing Borax on her sex organ. In this case you can clearly see the Drs'. role in controlling sexual behaviour. but you may ask Why should sexual behaviour be controlled? The answer is that in that era sexual behaviour helped to define the persons' status within society. So sexual acts considered illicit, immoral or excessive in nature [as defined by the ruling value system of the time] was considered to be the behaviour of the lower classes, so people of higher status needed to modify their sexual behaviour and the only way to do it was with the help of doctors.

In the 17 th and 18 th century cross-dressing was considered normal behaviour. This appeared in Thai society as well, for example Royal Court drama and the drama of the common people both had cross-dressing. But from the 19 th century we can say that Thai society took the values of western middle classes as their own. These values influenced Thai people's attitudes towards sex, including homosexuals /homosexuality, especially on the part of the middle class in the capital city. For example when men from Bangkok or the central part of Thailand went North they tended to think that Northern women were 'an easy lay'. In fact it was only a difference in their attitudes based on their value system that controlled the behaviour.

When we talk about the value placed on the virginity of unmarried women, this reflects the attitudes of high or middle class people very clearly. People in these two classes had property and money to pass on to their heirs, therefore it was vital that those heirs had their blood-line. Consequently they would only marry virgins to ensure that any children born were truly theirs.

To go back to the topic of cross-dressing, in Asia cross-dressing, that is men dressing as women and women dressing as men has always existed. This can be seen from past movie productions such as Pleng Rak Chao Rue produced by Show Brothers and shown at Sri Rajjawongse and Sriyawaraj. After that there was Lin Pao and Wang Yu"s Dej Ai Duen. In these movies you cannot tell whether the characters are played by male or female stars. Therefore the differentiation between male-female was not clear.

In western countries, reality in such issue was not clear either; it started to become clearer in the 19 th century, when the idea of differentiation became more prominent.

I have anther observation about Thai society which might reflect the reality about sex in Thai society. That is that there is no compliance between saying and doing. If you want to meet the social standards you have to say: I am a virgin: but the reality it might be the opposite. Unlike western society, there they do what they say. In our society words are meaningless. Therefore the way we talk about sex has no reality in regard to our actions. We have pornographic movies and books everywhere but we deny their existence. We have sexual intercourse, we have gays but we do not admit it out loud. Only our actions reveal the truth.

However, what I see as most important is the social power. If powers such as political or economic power sanction it you can do anything you like, you can be a gay. And social rules that control sexual behavior are not new. They existed in Buddhism while the Buddha was still alive. For example, the Buddha prohibited sexual intercourse between humans, so instead a monk turned to having sex with a monkey.

In human society, there is an attempt to control a decline in sexual morality all the time. However, this cannot be controlled. It like in this documentary film, do you think that the mother of the director wants her daughter to be gay? I believe she does not. However, she thinks the same as other people in the East, that what will be will be. We can raise our child physically but not mentally. If they happy to be this way just let them do it.

Salaithip: The last question is for Dr. Sukamon, as a psychiatrist, do you think that homosexuality is a kind of sickness?

Dr.Sukamon : In the past, we diagnosed homosexuality as a sexual malfunction. In 1973, there was a conference, and it was agreed in the conference that homosexuality is not a malfunction or sickness but an alternative life style. The American Psychiatrist Association, which has about 10,000 members, has a Gay & Lesbian Psychiatrist club with hundreds of members. This number is larger than the number of all psychiatrists in Thailand.

A frequently asked question is what makes a person turn to be a homosexual? I would answer that "I don't know". Reasons used to explain such behaviour were beliefs which keep changing. In the past, there was the psycho analysis theory of Freud explaining that homosexuality was a Castration Fear, the fear of the sex organ being cut off. The penis might be cut off, if you put into the vagina. Some believed that homosexuality was caused by the way parents brought their children up. Some parents with a son might want him to be a girl, or person who is gay might live in house where all members are women or he may have a distance relationship with the father. However, there are lots of men who live with all women or are not close to their fathers but who still act like men. Some claimed that they were deceived into having their first sexual experience with a man. All these reasons do not support the reason for being homosexual.

Later, there was research that claimed that persons who are gay have different in levels of hormones, chromosomes and their genetic make-up are different to those who are not gay. But there is still no real explanation.

One of the most popular questions asked is, can homosexuality be cured? The answer again would be "I don't know". I know only that if you do not suffer from being a homosexual there is no need to be cured. But if you do suffer, you have to find a way to be cured. When a doctor heals them, he does not help them out of being homosexual, but he helps them to relieve the agony.

These people suffer from questioning themselves on who they really are, by self denying or accepting themselves, but get stressed because they have to hide their real selves from people around them and by being forced to get married by their parents. These sufferings come from the feeling of guilt or sadness. Psychiatrists will look for the root of the suffering and treat that. We wish you feel happy about being a homosexual.

Thanet : I'd like to add more on this. In the conference in 1973 there was a big fight and was the first fight of the association where someone scorned the word "Fuck you" in the conference. I want to propose that this was the fight of people who employ power to judge whether being homosexual is normal or abnormal. The medical profession can not prove or judge what homosexuality is, so they cover it up and pretend it is not a problem. Consequently it turns into a political not a medical issue.

Therefore do not try to identify whether it is natural or unnatural. If you like to do it just do it, other people should not stick their nose in your business.

Salaithip : The time is up I have to close this discussion. Those of you who still want to share with our Aajarn and doctor can do so as you wish.

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